- From: Massimiliano Gubinelli <address@hidden>
- To: TeXmacs <address@hidden>
- Cc: address@hidden
- Subject: Re: Hide TeXmacs UI by default?
- Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 12:41:54 +0100
I think that the blog is still not ready (will ever be) for "initial
discussion", the forum seems a better place. When some more solid proposal
materialise, then we can draft it in the form of a proposal which would be
more stable and suitable for an article in the blog.
Max
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On 13. Nov 2020, at 12:34, TeXmacs <address@hidden> wrote:
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Dear all,
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>
Maybe we can stop this thread for now.
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>
I think that this is a good kind of discussion to put on Max' new blog.
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It raises the larger question of what kind of general interface we want:
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how much detail should be exposed to the user, where to put it,
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how to make it easy to learn from the interface, etc.
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>
Looking at other software, there are many options around.
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M$ Word inflated the toolbars into toolpanes that take half of your screen.
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MacOS Pages makes extensive use of side panes.
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OpenOffice/LibreOffice use an interface from the 20th century.
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Some new applications may use the purified kind of interfaces that Amir
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talks about;
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I guess that this is also inspired by the smartphone revolution.
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On Max' blog we could discuss the pros and cons of these various options,
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while keeping in mind that TeXmacs is particular in the sense that
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it contains many macros, whence the need of a very context sensitive
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interface.
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>
Best wishes, --Joris
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On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 09:08:46AM +0000, Frank wrote:
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> Hello all,
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>
>
> On the other hand, for the UI, I don't know how texmacs depends on Qt, and
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> I don't know how flexible is the interface that Qt provides. But I find
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> that the way that new GNOME desktop organizes seems a good idea: the
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> functionality is driven by command: when you input something (eg. Font),
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> GNOME desktop will search for that functionality (eg. GNOME tweak -> Font
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> settings). I suppose that if texmacs would implement this, we should not
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> do it manually, but using something that Qt furnishes: an interface to
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> search the pattern among all dialogs, settings and buttons (it is quite
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> generic and I support that it is part of Qt).
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>
>
> Best,
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> Frank
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>
>
> 于 November 13, 2020 8:49:43 AM UTC, Massimiliano Gubinelli
>
> <address@hidden> 写到:
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>> I find all this discussion a bit empty and not well determined. An UI,
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>> by definition cannot be removed, it is just the way an application
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>> interacts with the user:
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>>
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>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_interface
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>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_interface>
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>>
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>> Unless we make more precise the proposal I do not see reason to
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>> continue. Maybe Amir means a Graphical UI? Or just the toolbar? Or
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>> what?
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>>
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>> Max
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>>
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>>
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>>> On 13. Nov 2020, at 08:54, Henri Girard <address@hidden> wrote:
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>>>
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>>> I used texmacs because there was an UI (very beginners with texmacs
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>> though I use it for years) if it is taken away I don't see the use of
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>> texmacs ?
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>> Le 12/11/2020 à 23:21, Ibrahima Fall a écrit :
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>>>> Hi all,
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>>>> For me it is better to show the UI by default. Hiding it can be made
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>> possible for some advanced users.
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>>>>
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>>>> best regards
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>>>>
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>>>> Le jeu. 12 nov. 2020 à 21:34, Amir Michail <address@hidden
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>> <mailto:address@hidden>> a écrit :
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>> On Nov 12, 2020, at 4:24 PM, Massimiliano Gubinelli
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>> <address@hidden <mailto:address@hidden>> wrote:
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>>>>>
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>>>>> What about people that will complain that the UI is too terse and
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>> would prefer to have buttons (even if 1997'ish) around?
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>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>> As a first step, you would hide the UI by default. Users could
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>> always change the default to reveal some always visible UI elements.
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>>>>
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>>>> After that, you could think about how to reduce the need for always
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>> visible UI elements by revealing UI elements only when necessary. When
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>> that is accomplished, the need for users to turn on always visible UI
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>> elements is reduced.
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>>>>
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>>>> Amir
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>> Max
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>> On 12. Nov 2020, at 22:21, Amir Michail <address@hidden
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>> <mailto:address@hidden>> wrote:
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> On Nov 12, 2020, at 4:13 PM, Massimiliano Gubinelli
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>> <address@hidden <mailto:address@hidden>> wrote:
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> On 12. Nov 2020, at 22:01, Amir Michail <address@hidden
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>> <mailto:address@hidden>> wrote:
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> Hello,
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> The main strength of TeXmacs is not its UI but rather its
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>> WYSIWYG editing of high quality math documents.
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> So why not hide the UI by default so this main strength is more
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>> obvious to everyone?
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> What do you mean?
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> I'm not sure we have to go along with every single comment in
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>> social networks from people which never tried the program. You cannot
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>> please everyone. Maybe more "fancy" icons would attract "fancy" people.
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>> But then what?
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>> First impressions matter. If the UI is not considered particularly
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>> innovative, then why not hide it and focus on what makes TeXmacs
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>> amazing?
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>> Also, many people find always visible UI elements distracting.
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>> It’s better to focus on the document itself and only show UI elements
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>> as needed.
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>> Amir
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> If somebody come by with nice replacements to the icons, I think
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>> Joris would be the first to adopt them.
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> Max
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> Amir
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> P.S. See this discussion:
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>> https://www.reddit.com/r/compsci/comments/jsyv18/an_overview_of_texmacs_from_altitude_or_why_it/
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>> <https://www.reddit.com/r/compsci/comments/jsyv18/an_overview_of_texmacs_from_altitude_or_why_it/>
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>>>>
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>
>
> --
>
> 使用 K-9 Mail 发送自我的Android设备。
- Re: Hide TeXmacs UI by default?, (continued)
- Re: Hide TeXmacs UI by default?, Ibrahima Fall, 11/12/2020
- Re: Hide TeXmacs UI by default?, Kurt Pagani, 11/13/2020
- Re: Hide TeXmacs UI by default?, Henri Girard, 11/13/2020
- Re: Hide TeXmacs UI by default?, Frank, 11/13/2020
- Re: Hide TeXmacs UI by default?, Massimiliano Gubinelli, 11/13/2020
- Re: Hide TeXmacs UI by default?, TeXmacs, 11/13/2020
- Re: Hide TeXmacs UI by default?, Massimiliano Gubinelli, 11/13/2020
- mailing list vs. forum vs. wiki [was Re: Hide TeXmacs UI by default?], TeXmacs, 11/13/2020
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