mailing-list for TeXmacs Users

[Jan Ulrich Hasecke <address@hidden>]

Hi David!

David Allouche <address@hidden> writes:

> We will have to answer it, but I would like us to discuss the anwers
> here before. That way we will be able to produce a few comprehensive
> and effective answers, thus preserving our reputation with the LWN
> editorial team and their high quality readership.
>
> The news item is at that address: http://lwn.net/Articles/788/

In your post you mentioned the better model of programming. The first
answer given argued from the users point of view. 

I can only say something about the users point of view.

I am working as a freelance-texter, so I have to share my texts with
others, mostly my clients. I am working with LaTeX since 1988. Since
years I use the emacs-auctex combination and LyX. 

When I share a document with my clients I produce a pdf-file from my
LaTeX-source (or LyX-source) and send it, together with a plain-text
version via email to my client. I can view and print the pdf and if my
text is ok he can send the plain-text-version (or the pdf) to the
dtp-operator who inserts it. 

Because sometimes my clients wants to have a Word-Dokument I tried out
all Wordprocessors I could find: abiword, kword, openoffice.org. The
most useful at the moment is openoffice.org 1.0 but I cannot get used
to such a piece of software. 

The first problem with new software is, that it is new software. You
have to learn things new, which you did with closed eyes with your
favorite software before. 

When I first struggled with LaTeX in 1988 I asked a friend of mine:
Will there ever be a WYSIWYG-TeX? So TeXmacs is something I always
dreamt of.

I think this could be one way of advocating TeXmacs:

TeXmacs is a typesetting-programm, useful to all users, not only to
scientific writers. I know many people who say: Oh I've heard about
TeX, it is something for mathematicians. I am studying egyptian
archeology so I do not need it.

Same with TeXmacs. I think you do not have to tell a mathematician
that TeXmacs is wonderful. They will understand the first time, they
try it out. You have to tell all the other users of wordprecessors
that TeXmacs is better than Word, Kword, OpenOffice.org. 

So what is essential for wordprocessor-users? I think LaTeX is doing
everything a writer could think of. But you cannot convince someone to
write LaTeX-Sourcecode, when he started with Word or something
else. And we all know that there is a lot of ERT (Evil Red Text) even
in LyX. When there are problems in LyX, the user have to know
something about LaTeX. The user I think should know nothing about the
source at all, when he uses a typesetting-program.

My experience with TeXmacs is, that there is no problem to which the
solution is: Insert \foo or \bar as ERT. Maybe there is no solution,
but all solutions are AFAICS well integrated.

So if TeXmacs is doing nearly the same as LaTeX, then it is useful to
all users.

No user is really interested in a well formatted document. The
software should do that. So WYSIWYG _and_ a well formatted document is
no argument for the ordinary user. It is I think a must. It is not
possible to convert a document to an other format, when it is not well
formatted. To the ordinary user your argument in LWN is not the
strongest argument.

The strongest argument is I think the typesetting quality. This is a
good argument to the normal user and especially for the
mathematicians.

So the first way is to say: You can make everything you want, and you
can do it nicely. 

That means to the programmers: Look at the prepress-working chain! How
can TeXmacs be integrated into a PS/PDF-oriented prepress-framework?

The other side is: How can I share my documents with others? TeXmacs
needs converters at least for the text-parts. If it would be possible
to produce pdf with embedded fonts, ascii with all the headline-text,
and some other formats like html, rtf etc. I could use it in my daily
work.

If there are more TeXmacs-users, there will be more contributors. So
how to get more users?

Do not only talk to TeX-Users or LyX-Users but talk to all those who
are trying out KWord, Abiword and OpenOffice.org searching for a
better wordprocessor. TeXmacs is a GUI-program so everybody could use
it. If you want to write a letter: use TeXmacs! If you want to write a
masterthesis with 400 pages: use TeXmacs. Never use something else!

My wish list up to now:
1. Prepress-Usability via PDF with embedded fonts
2. Converters

One problem is: How can I extend TeXmacs? How can I write new styles?
I must confess that it is not possible for me, the average user, to do
this. I did not even understand how it really works, and I _am_ using
LaTeX a long time.

Wish-List:
3. A GUI for creating styles? Perhaps a better documentation would
   help, but I am not sure. 

At last a slight idea to achieve some money. Open Source is hype. The
german parliament decided to use Linux on their servers. I've heard
good news from France about zope. Are there any european sources
spending money for improving TeXmacs? You could present TeXmacs as a
tool for all or as a scientific typesetter. I think it would be nice,
and the EU should pay for it, when all scientists in europe could use
a free typesetting program when they want to publish their work. The
typesetting solution for universities.

Oh god! It is late and I have written more than I wanted to and more
than you could possibly bear to read. ;-)

My apologies.

Ciao!
juh
-- 
Null Null
http://www.sudelbuch.de/2000/20000106.html