mailing-list for TeXmacs Users

[TeXmacs <address@hidden>]

Dear all,

Maybe we can stop this thread for now.

I think that this is a good kind of discussion to put on Max' new blog.
It raises the larger question of what kind of general interface we want:
how much detail should be exposed to the user, where to put it,
how to make it easy to learn from the interface, etc.

Looking at other software, there are many options around.
M$ Word inflated the toolbars into toolpanes that take half of your screen.
MacOS Pages makes extensive use of side panes.
OpenOffice/LibreOffice use an interface from the 20th century.
Some new applications may use the purified kind of interfaces that Amir talks 
about;
I guess that this is also inspired by the smartphone revolution.

On Max' blog we could discuss the pros and cons of these various options,
while keeping in mind that TeXmacs is particular in the sense that
it contains many macros, whence the need of a very context sensitive 
interface.

Best wishes, --Joris




On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 09:08:46AM +0000, Frank wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> On the other hand, for the UI, I don't know how texmacs depends on Qt, and 
> I don't know how flexible is the interface that Qt provides. But I find 
> that the way that new GNOME desktop organizes seems a good idea: the 
> functionality is driven by command: when you input something (eg. Font), 
> GNOME desktop will search for that functionality (eg. GNOME tweak -> Font 
> settings). I suppose that if texmacs would implement this, we should not do 
> it manually, but using something that Qt furnishes: an interface to search 
> the pattern among all dialogs, settings and buttons (it is quite generic 
> and I support that it is part of Qt).
> 
> Best,
> Frank
> 
> 于 November 13, 2020 8:49:43 AM UTC, Massimiliano Gubinelli <address@hidden> 
> 写到:
> >I find all this discussion a bit empty and not well determined. An UI,
> >by definition cannot be removed, it is just the way an application
> >interacts with the user:
> >
> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_interface
> ><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_interface>
> >
> >Unless we make more precise the proposal I do not see reason to
> >continue. Maybe Amir means a Graphical UI? Or just the toolbar? Or
> >what?
> >
> >Max
> >
> >
> >> On 13. Nov 2020, at 08:54, Henri Girard <address@hidden> wrote:
> >> 
> >> I used texmacs because there was an UI (very beginners with texmacs
> >though I use it for years) if it is taken away I don't see the use of
> >texmacs ?
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Le 12/11/2020 à 23:21, Ibrahima Fall a écrit :
> >>> Hi all,
> >>> For me it is better to show the UI by default. Hiding it can be made
> >possible for some advanced users.
> >>> 
> >>> best regards
> >>> 
> >>> Le jeu. 12 nov. 2020 à 21:34, Amir Michail <address@hidden
> ><mailto:address@hidden>> a écrit :
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>>> On Nov 12, 2020, at 4:24 PM, Massimiliano Gubinelli
> ><address@hidden <mailto:address@hidden>> wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>> What about people that will complain that the UI is too terse and
> >would prefer to have buttons  (even if 1997'ish) around?
> >>>> 
> >>> 
> >>> As a first step, you would hide the UI by default. Users could
> >always change the default to reveal some always visible UI elements.
> >>> 
> >>> After that, you could think about how to reduce the need for always
> >visible UI elements by revealing UI elements only when necessary. When
> >that is accomplished, the need for users to turn on always visible UI
> >elements is reduced.
> >>> 
> >>> Amir
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>>> Max
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>>> On 12. Nov 2020, at 22:21, Amir Michail <address@hidden
> ><mailto:address@hidden>> wrote:
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>>> On Nov 12, 2020, at 4:13 PM, Massimiliano Gubinelli
> ><address@hidden <mailto:address@hidden>> wrote:
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> On 12. Nov 2020, at 22:01, Amir Michail <address@hidden
> ><mailto:address@hidden>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Hello,
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> The main strength of TeXmacs is not its UI but rather its
> >WYSIWYG editing of high quality math documents. 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> So why not hide the UI by default so this main strength is more
> >obvious to everyone?
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> What do you mean? 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> I'm not sure we have to go along with every single comment in
> >social networks from people which never tried the program. You cannot
> >please everyone. Maybe more "fancy" icons would attract "fancy" people.
> >But then what?
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> First impressions matter. If the UI is not considered particularly
> >innovative, then why not hide it and focus on what makes TeXmacs
> >amazing?
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Also, many people find always visible UI elements distracting.
> >It’s better to focus on the document itself and only show UI elements
> >as needed.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Amir
> >>>>> 
> >>>>>> If somebody come by with nice replacements to the icons, I think
> >Joris would be the first to adopt them.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Max
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Amir
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> P.S. See this discussion:
> >https://www.reddit.com/r/compsci/comments/jsyv18/an_overview_of_texmacs_from_altitude_or_why_it/
> ><https://www.reddit.com/r/compsci/comments/jsyv18/an_overview_of_texmacs_from_altitude_or_why_it/>
> >>> 
> 
> -- 
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